Re: A LEGAL FUND

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Re: A LEGAL FUND


propro Joined on 05 Jan 2009 Total posts: 76	Re: A LEGAL FUND Sonntag, 9. August 2009 10:36 Every few days you read here about dancers who are tired of the restrictions placed upon them by IDSF. This is not an organisation to which they belong and they pay NO membership fee and they are denied their democratic rights.. The cost of going to court by an individual couple is high and thus many are put off. Could this be the time to launch an appeal for a LEGAL FUND? Ask every dancer who feels that was to contribute something like $10 (more if they wish) and take the IDSF to European Court of Human Rights? Or is there so much apathy that those who complain would not wish to contribute?
jazz Joined on 07 Apr 2005 Total posts: 517	Re: A LEGAL FUND Sonntag, 9. August 2009 12:56 @pro-pro Legal-Fund ? Moneys pooled by volunteering to contribute supporters, while allowing a free ride by ( probably ) majority of ( freeloaders) others who would be first to try benefit while not paying to the fund ? Sort of idealistic idea, is it not ? The idea is interesting, and worth consideration : 1. who would be in charge of the Fund ? 2. would person in charge be one who would decide which complain be consider of highest, higher and not so high in importance to be pursued in courts ? Assess the rewards, probability of winning the case, not to waste the Fund's moneys ? 3. what qualification, legal expertize would such, in charge of the Fund, person have, a lawyer perhaps, experienced in international, or just German Law ? 4. Would the Fund be used to pay for the services of such a person ? Would this not deplete the fund ? What if the cost of legal service exceeds the moneys in the fund, who would pay the difference, who would be responsible ? The person in charge, who only puts forward and represents the most important 'issues' ? Certainly not the World - wide spread, often secret supporters of the Fund . 5. Would other experts be required, volunteers.or paid, to follow through, and make follow-ups to assure that the hired lawyers do not take advantage and do not drag cases too long, do not write excessive amount of letters/reports...meetings? 6. Who would decide if the wishes of one country, such as Netherlands's are more important than the issues of another country ? 6. what liability insurance would such a person need in case a member would allege the funds were not properly used or abused ? The idea is interesting but almost sounds like introducing a dancers union to represent dancers against their own association . Not against IDSF since IDSF is a third independent party to which National Dancesport Associations flog for one reason or another. The recent example from Ontario, Canada shows that willing to organize themselves and united association members have the power to overturn their Association's Board proposals, and indeed propose and vote for the desired changes. Association members need be less apathetic, and believe more in themselves and their ability to affect and make a change. United members can have their associations accept , through the democratic voting process and accepting majority decision, desired changes. These changes could be a better representation of dancers needs, whatever it may be, and communicating these needs to IDSF, or the National Members could be forced their membership to even split from IDSF, no matter how much their directors may wish to remain under the obviously protective umbrella of IDSF . Wake up members, wake up competitors, show little more life, energy and activity, something you always try to show to us on the dance floor, go to your annual meeting and vote for the changes you want. Without your input the hard working volunteering board members may have no idea what you want and just follow their own ideas for your benefit. This is not a time to be passive, give up, not care , not participate, not give a damn. If you do not unite, organize and vote, those who are able to organize and unite ( your beloved association's board members will decide for you ). If that happens do not complain, by your inaction you will have always voted for what Rules and regulations you have.
propro Joined on 05 Jan 2009 Total posts: 76	Re: A LEGAL FUND Mittwoch, 12. August 2009 05:47 Where there is the will there is the way. As the OADA dancer have shown sometimes democracy can win if the competitors have the determination to achieve something they want. Naturally this. - if it were to go ahead,. would need to be well co-ordinated and managed with proper accountability. Perhaps a well known figure could be persuaded to take the helm (or even a legal figure appointed or volunteering) to take the helm and administer. Their could be local co-ordinators for various areas. It could even be that within each dance club one person took control for that club and arranged for collection of the funds. It is even possible that fund raising events could take place. There are so many ways that this avenue could be pursued BUT it needs to be driven by the dancers themselves. If people want to look only for negatives rather than positives it can never succeed. If people want to see it as a contest between one country and another it can never suceed. Life is filled with instances where freeloaders have gained on the back of the efforts of others but that should never be used as an excuse for inaction. The entire fund would be for two purposes only both for the benefit of all. One being that dancers have the freedom to join more than one Federation/Council/Union or whatever. Those who wish to remain with only one can retain that position.The other being that dancers plan their own career without fear of reprisals and punsihment. The IDSF is a European Based organisation it seems proper, to my thinking, to bring the legal action in Europe. The precedence would be set on a world wide basis however and prevent IDSF overruling National bodies worldwide as happens now. Since there has only been the one comment in the topic I already have the feeling that dancers love to complain but shy away from actually doing something.
dancer 007 Joined on 12 Apr 2007 Total posts: 87	Re: A LEGAL FUND Donnerstag, 13. August 2009 12:42 propro- I for one congratulate you. I hve been saying for ages that the EEC have outlawed these practises long ago and your proposal would fly ! Let's see.
onyourtoes Joined on 12 Feb 2007 Total posts: 831	Re: A LEGAL FUND Freitag, 14. August 2009 17:45 dancer007 I agree with you. A thought that came to my mind. In the recent topic about "Assen here we go again" we had contributions from 2 Netheralnds dancers SambamanX and Koningisidoor. SambamanX mentioned the CSA. Is it possible this would be one step for the use of the fund? Are there Netherlands dancers who might accept the position of "fund leader"? I for one would do everything I could to help, to raise awareness, and try to achieve the largest possible fund. Over to you dancers. Will be great if the OADA members come in on this one..
jazz Joined on 07 Apr 2005 Total posts: 517	Re: A LEGAL FUND Freitag, 14. August 2009 22:03 Jazz has written above : The recent example from Ontario, Canada shows that willing to organize themselves and united association members have the power to overturn their Association's Board proposals, and indeed propose and vote for the desired changes. OADA members, if they read this, may not find such an invitation interesting. The proposed fund would require a financial support of a large number of people, something not found in Ontario. Besides, the interested parties may likely form a fund if they themselves can realize immediate benefit - the most legal battles to take place where the most unhappy members are, which is not North America, specifically Ontario. This is not to say that OADA members would leave their brothers and sisters behind ...( if they had a gun muzzle pressed against their heads ) OADA and its voting members have demonstrated that the Associations Rules can be changed, either voted in, or against, as long as the members show unity and the democratic system works. Jazz suggests OADA members need not "come in on this one"..., their OADA (Association) fortunately listens and abides by the majority members decision and that is all OADA members need for now. The idea of arbitrarily nominating a disgruntled member to be in charge of a Fund, without instituting, implementing , thinking through the above outlined precautionary save guards is rather premature and Jazz cannot imagine people volunteering to send and deposit their moneys into any fund without having any idea who, when, where and for which purpose (why ) their moneys would be used. Nevertheless the idea is interesting.
propro Joined on 05 Jan 2009 Total posts: 76	Re: A LEGAL FUND Samstag, 15. August 2009 19:55 propro Naturally this. - if it were to go ahead,. would need to be well co-ordinated and managed with proper accountability. If people want to look only for negatives rather than positives it can never succeed. If people want to see it as a contest between one country and another it can never suceed. The entire fund would be for two purposes only both for the benefit of all. One being that dancers have the freedom to join more than one Federation/Council/Union or whatever. Those who wish to remain with only one can retain that position.The other being that dancers plan their own career without fear of reprisals and punsihment. . ---- jazz The idea of arbitrarily nominating a disgruntled member to be in charge of a Fund, without instituting, implementing , thinking through the above outlined precautionary save guards is rather premature and Jazz cannot imagine people volunteering to send and deposit their moneys into any fund without having any idea who, when, where and for which purpose (why ) their moneys would be used. ---- The purpose is very clear. $10 is a major amount for North American dancers? They care only about their own patch ? My suggestion was for the benfit of the many rather than for the few. I am aware that it is a rather unlikely event.
jazz Joined on 07 Apr 2005 Total posts: 517	Re: A LEGAL FUND Sonntag, 16. August 2009 13:17 pro-pro you have convinced me , you found your Volunteer . Providing everyone sends `$10`, ( those in financial need can send it in 2 easy payments of $ 5), Jazz will do it. Jazz will provide the PO Box number, and a new Legal Fund bank account number` and you can start depositing your moneys , and everyone else. Jazz will take care of the Legal Fund and the Legal Fund deposits with a loving care . Lets do it ! Just $10. How about it ? Lets start with Pro-Pro and Onyourtoes. Replace the empty words with a positive Action. Onyourtoes has already pledged a full support and to do everything in his power to make it a success. Jazz is well qualified. She meets all the requirements having no contest with her neighbours, any state. or country, Jazz will even find a way to get along and to agree with Onyoutoes from now on, and make only the comments in his for-members-only corner which will not require edits, censorship, we all will become good friends, all for the benefit and the growth of the Legal Fund. Now that Pro-Pro showed how this would work, your Jazz see only the positives. To show an open mind Jazz would even accept $ 1 from everyone who is associated with IDSF and WDC and all their national members, and from everyone who dances, want to learn to dance, or just watches dance on TV, but I mean everyone need be involved in what Jazz sees now a very worthwhile project.. Is $ 1.00 a major amount for 90% people of the World . World Dancesport Legal Fund administered by a volunteer Jazz . Wow. Can you see the good Jazz can do, will do with all this moneys ? Jazz realizes the power and the potential of such a fund, , and also pledges to give it her attention to it , and has already put aside $10 to be one of the first ten thousand thousand depositors. Administrative Legal Fund`s expenses would be covered by the Fund, hopefully, without the need to ask you for additional moneys in addition to the ANNUAL contribution Annual contribution you ask ? Well, of course. How far do you think your $10 will go ? Would it break your bank account to invest $ 10 in your dance ( no matter where you live ) and to a good use ? Since Jazz will not even know who the contributors are and where they live, unless of course you require a receipt, in which case at a minor expense to the Legal Fund a registry could be set up. Those wishing a receipt would enclose $ 3 as a Shipping and Handling Fee , or $ 2 with a stamped self -addressed envelope. Lets test the idea, lets see how clever, lucrative and interesting idea is of sending of just $ 10.
diamondgal Joined on 05 Jan 2009 Total posts: 33	Re: A LEGAL FUND Sonntag, 16. August 2009 14:45 jazz I am tired of reading your nasty comments and attempts to destroy every topic you do not like. Please for all other readers here try to behave in a more sociable manner. There would be no purpose to your being banned as you will only come back with a different name. I am very sorry but I must also add your attitude should disqualify you from any post in DanceSport and especiall admintration of thesuggested fund, which is a great idea, but will not come about because of the apathy of dancers.
onyourtoes Joined on 12 Feb 2007 Total posts: 831	Re: A LEGAL FUND Sonntag, 16. August 2009 17:08 jazz pro-pro you have convinced me , you found your Volunteer . Jazz will provide the PO Box number, and a new Legal Fund bank account number` and you can start depositing your moneys Lets do it ! Just $10. How about it ? Lets start with Pro-Pro and Onyourtoes. Replace the empty words with a positive Action. Onyourtoes has already pledged a full support and to do everything in his power to make it a success. . Lets test the idea, lets see how clever, lucrative and interesting idea is of sending of just $ 10. ---- Jazz - Thank you for your wonderful offer. All you need do and I will happily send even more than my $10 is : provide your full name, Bank Details and number for the special account you would set up. I would also need address of your solicitor to verify that you had complied with all legal aspects. Any charge your solicitor may make I will cover. Do not fail us now and especially since you are so convinced.