Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

Samstag, 28. Juni 2008 06:52

It looks like strong efforts to get the word out and the WDC World Championships be kept  in the minds of competitors with an e-mail from Sammy Stopford .  I am quite sure the Adjudicating panel will be World Class as Mr Stopfors states.

Dear Sir / Madam,
Attached information about the Amateur World Championships 2008 in Disneyland Paris.
A wonderful, truly open championship!
With the world's best adjudicators!
We invite you all to participate.
The same and more information is to be found on our website 

(the website address is given but I have deleted because it could be interpreted as free advertising) 

Kindest regards and looking forward to seeing you all in Paris,
Sammy Stopford.

Cynics will say they are not getting the support but I have a feeling that many of the WDC members are top coaches and know what the competitors they train are saying to them.  I could be totally wrong. Time alone will tell.

@Sambatogo.

I posed my question to moderate-man who had said that he personally was involved in the democratic vote and the Professional World Champ. decision was made because the competitors were the driving force. Therefore it is interesting for me to know if Amateurs were involved in the decision making process. Let us hope that Amateurs and Professionals will be heard by WDC in equal measure.This is one sure way to let Amateurs know that their voice is important respected and taken into account so yes for me it is important.; Maybe the Amateur World Champ cannnot be changed this year but if the competitors wish it will it be changed for the future?  It is illogical for the same body to run an Amateur and a Professional World Championships with a different format

Taking into account many factors both past and present  I am a deeply commited supporter of the WDC but I am sorry I cannot write whatever they do is OK by me.

You may well be right that amateurs do  not care how an event is run and they just want to dance however it is my strong suspicion  that they justly have certain expectations and certain requirements and conditions .  That they are not just an entrance fee at the door.

I  believe that they do want to feel respected and that their voice is heard and heeded.  Because IDSF have never listened nor cared that is no reason for WDC to go down the same path .  This is where there could be a the third major reason for Amateurs to believe they were not being "used"  that they had a genuine alternative .The first 2 of course  being the right to make their own choices and the opportunity to have knowledgable and experienced adjudicators.

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

Samstag, 28. Juni 2008 15:37

p>No worries Keggs,  Light & Easy may prefer the posters who make one liners, such as the one asking a profound  question :   "which music do you listen to before competition ....".

 

I find your 'back and forth"  interesting, a bit  long...  You two have much in common,  you are just standing on top of  different  hills.

 

I find it rather interesting that you  feel that Amateurs want just to dance and do not care about anything else. You even found  a supporter in sambatogo.

 

If  such a finding  would be correct, why are some competitions  attended better than others ? There are local competitions, quite affordable, yet the Amateurs ( you refer to as " just want to dance" )  somehow figured, these were not the events they wanted to attend , support, have anything to do with.....and the list is growing..

 

Amateurs have proved that they have preferences, that they do not want just to dance,  to dance they stay  and do it in their own clubs.

 

I believe that Amateurs seek recognition , and above all   RESPECT.  At all levels,  Juvenile, Junior, Adult and Senior 1,2 &3 .  Respect from  Organizers, respect from spectators, respect from the judges.

 

The Amateurs "Athletes"  need be treated as someone who is appreciated by the Organizers, someone who is recognized as the most important part of any dancesport event,  because without them the amateur event could not exist,  judges would not be needed, the spectators would have anything to watch, the DJ would have no one to play for,  the advertiser would miss an opportunity and exposure to their goods,  everyone would miss out. 

This is why I question why in USA and Canada  it is  expected of  the Amateurs  not only to provide a spectacle for everyone,  but also  having to pay  the same high fees as those who come to watch them, and on top of it pay additional floor/entry  fees.

Do actors, ballet dancers,  musicians, entertainers  have  pay to be on the stage for the privilege of showing their craft and entertaining the  crowds ?

Or, do I have it wrong,  and it is the organizer  who is doing  the Amateurs a favor ,  after all the -   "Amateurs  just  want to dance" ? 

Who is the Organizer's customer ?  What is the source of organizer's  revenues ? 

Is it the Amateur dancer, or is it the spectator and the advertiser, the professional videographer / photographers   ?   

If you agree it is the Amateur.....you need to show respect, treat your customer correctly,  which also means you provide  beside a  facility   adequate, knowledgeable, experienced,  unbiased, and responsible judging panel. 

So much was written about this.  Does anyone listen ? 

 

Why is it European organizers can put on  a profitable event and still  charge  competitors just a small fee, while in USA and Canada Amateur is cashed out ?  

   

Treat Amateur Dancers with respect,  show you appreciate  them,  do not let anyone abuse them,  and the Amateurs will come in large numbers to support you and to dance.  After all, is it not what you suggested Amateurs say they just  want ?

 

  

 

 

 

 

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

Samstag, 28. Juni 2008 18:43

Keggs, don let anyone intimidate you, you asked no one to go private, you just accepted suggestion made by other writers. Why is onyourtoes on your case ?

The suggestion by onyourtoes that other contributors ( and there are not many )  are somehow  inferior being is not worth responding to, it just show that some people feel they are more important than others.

@Think of me

I knew you could not stay out of this one !  Welcome back.  The forum has been so slow lately, it was not worth logging on.  Sorry about your old friend....Are you still using the old PC ?  Or are you  lerning a new PC protocol ??

Onyourtoes does not wish to meet Keggs in some dark alley,  he needs witnesses, should there be an undesiable  blow below the waste, I suppose.  I am just watching some old cowboy movie with John Wayne, and onyourtoes sounds just like my idol:

"Come to an  open, stranger ",  "I will happily exchange  fire".

It is too bad that some people feel just because they are not banned by the webmaster that they can proceed and have the proprietary rights to a topic  they started.  Personally  I do not see anything disrespectful with Steve,  I recall  your associatingsimilar  beaviour with a gorrila and  drumming ones chest.

 Onyourtoes is right, we have the option of starting our own verbiage and ignore his charismatic invitation to a looooong dialogue.  Or have we been doing it till just now  ?  Just keep them coming and smoothen the hairs on your backs. 

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

Sonntag, 29. Juni 2008 07:15

@keggs

I enjoy these debates and even if there are differences do agree we want many of the same things we are simply crawling up opposite sides of the mountain and totally unable to make one iota of difference. .To me one of the benefits of a forum is that people can exchange in an amicable way opinions and counter opinions.  It is democracy in action.  All my comments below are meant in the most cordial way.

I do believe that I and people like me would be prepared to meet you and people like you halfway.  The problem which half has to be sacrificed.  I also believe your thinking that one group is progressive and forward thinking and the other stagnant and caught in the past is one thought that has to go.  To expect unity with this attitude and constantly voicing this accusation makes unity near nigh impossible.  The same could be said about your accusation of "untrustworthy".Both sides have their own guilt in this area.

One thing you implied and which I cannot accept is that the WDC are not interested in one world organisation governing ballroom/standard  and Lain Dancing

Please can you fully explain what you believe is the great vision that the IDSF hold.

To the best of my knowledge IDSF do want one world body a world which extends far beyond competitive Ballroom and Latin American Dancing (and in that I include Rock n roll, jitterbug wheelchair formation dancing etc). The problem then is that they do wish to be the dominant partner and leader. 

Just at the time the difficult negotiations were to be launched for one joint governing body  IDSF decided that they were so dominant they could go ahead to the total exclusion of the WDC. To a large part this was a rsult of their giving birth to the IPDSC. Their famous words "the train has left the station and the WDC are not on it".  They sacked Mr Bain their one time 1st Vice President for his words of wisdom pleading for peace harmony negotiation and unity.

The most for me thought provoking aspect would be just how "democtratic" will your vision of democracy be?  Strictly speaking I think the word means "government by the people" and we all know that in any democracy this is not the case.  In most countries it ends up the  group with the greatest number of members/votes taking power.  One thing we do not need is the Mugabe form of democracy..

Ask yourself 

will all competitors be freed from their curent restraints and then freely allowed to decide which body they wish to join to participate in the one world governing body.

Should lets say England (and countries witha similar stucture) decide that  amateur competitors need not be EADA  etc and thus with IDSF connections but able to be WDC registered or even IDU and IDSA.

If we stick with the current restraints (and being less democratic) then the Amateurs I suspect have a  greater number of competitors so should they have a greater voice with more delegates.  I believe that this is one thing the Pros suspect will happen in a very short period of time.,

Will those involved in any way  e.g. a lowly teacher who has no desire to coach competitors have a role,  I believe yes if it is all embracing. What if they were to win a vote that no Amateur could teach.

Should say countries like Russia and China with an infinitely greater number of competitors have a greater voice than lets say at random Luxemboug and Malta

Would it be right for lets say those who are involved in folk dancing or ballet (although I doubt that they would ever be interested) voting and deciding the future of our dance competitors.

What about the likes of theatre dancers who are members of theatre unions will their union become a member and deciding competitive dancing future and our being bound by their internal decisions - maybe even going on strike!.

If people like the folk and theatre dancers are accepted will corruption enter the scene with bribes and pressure to ensure their votes go in a particular way. for one of the standard/latin bodies. We have seen this happen with the Olympics.

Should there be a free pardon for all past actions which are considered "sinful".

Would the decisions by this "all governing"  body become incumbent on every member and member country.  I believe legally it would be impossible and the World Governing Body for dance being constantly in court., So we would still have one country operating different policies to another.

Ask yourself if IDSF are in any way interested in meeting half way why do not (as is strongly rumoured)  immediately announce competitors can dance where they choose - now that would the voice of the people and democratic.

Re: No 1 WDC Amateur League OPEN World Amateur Championships CORRECT POST VERSION

Sonntag, 29. Juni 2008 15:21

Impossible   Try translating what onyourtoes  writes with a dictionary in hand.  It would take to long.